Re: Anti-Religion

[toker]

Problem with nearly every government on this planet is GOD.

Take away god and religion constantly being pushed on the people and you have you have a society who are finally able to live by free will.

[Wolf]

Problem with nearly every government on this planet is GOD.

Take away god and religion constantly being pushed on the people and you have you have a society who are finally able to live by free will.

I'd say one the major factors that led to the destruction of modern American life is the liberal mindset of removing God from every instance imaginable in American life. I've always thought that since liberals have no definable morals they resent anyone who does, because it implies that those who have no moral compass will be judged by those who do. Better for liberals to remove that possibility........thus the witch hunt on anything pertaining to morals, God, Christ, etc.

You can trace a clear path from the moment liberals got prayer removed from public schools (along with the Pledge of Allegiance) to the marked decline of this country's society on every level.

[toker]

You can trace a clear path to nearly every war in history being somehow linked to or excused by god or ones religious beliefs. I am not a satanist obviously and do believe in god to some degree. But god does not rule my life nor should he control my country or government. And no man on this earth has the right to impose on me how he believes god wants me to live my life. If god wanted to tell me how to live then according to most every religion out there he would not have a problem doing so.

Those who want to have their lives dictated by one or all of the bibles that push various religious political agendas are more then free to do so within their homes and or churches. I simply believe ALL religious beliefs and especially the extremists need to keep those beliefs out of my government and keep it where it belongs. We have thousands of Churches and none of which even have to pay one dime of tax in America. But if those Churches want to shadow over my government and try to dictate laws through political influence then America should tax them into the ground.

You want to see change in this world then you should convince your government to stop laying in bed with terrorist nations and their leaders when it's convenient. In fact just the one conflict between Palestinians and the Jews has killed more innocent people then Hitler could have ever dreamed. Yet we continue to feed both sides with money and resources to continue the slaughter of innocent people. It will also probably never end because the Christian majority will never punish Israel because it goes against those same religious beliefs that once again have no place in my government.

Your way of thinking seems to be that if everyone conforms to your sole belief there is no more conflict. Prayer does not belong in schools but neither does black history month IMHO. Anything that recognises or gives greater important to one group including those who believe in god simply does not belong. Otherwise in a nation of equality we should have national clan month and celebrate those who slaughtered and tortured innocent people due to having the wrong skin color.

[Wolf]

For the record, I am agnostic. I am not a Christian. I cannot help but observe the obvious, however, regarding the connection between the removal of God from schools and the decline of our country.

I would politely suggest that it is your President who is in charge at the moment, far more than he is my President. And furthermore that it is your type of government far, far more than my type of government which has been running the country for many years, than it is mine.

For if there were a government in Washington that I would vote for, or even could have voted for, we would not be entangled in the affairs of foreign governments at all, much less at war with them. And we would not have a socialist government........so I submit to you that it is your preferred style of government is at least 50% to blame for our current state of affairs and 100% to blame for anything that has happened in the last year and change.

Which includes two wars that have not been stopped, that have, in fact been escalated.

So I would sincerely appreciate it if you would not try to swing the finger of blame in my direction.

[toker]

Yes i like Obama but no i did not vote because Ron Paul was already out of the race. But there is no way in hell i would trade Obama for McCain regardless. Especially considering he is so far out of touch with America that he does not even care what a gallon of gas or milk costs in the very country he wants to run. Nor does he even care how much things cost hard working Americans because the servants his wife pays for do everything but wipe his cowardly ass for him.

I am not trying to pin blame on you im just trying to open your eyes that the world is not perfect. Corruption is almost everywhere you look if you are not to blind to notice.

[Wolf]

Uh.....what makes you think I don't know the world is not a perfect place?

Btw, McCain is not a natural born citizen of the U.S. either.

[toker]

Nor was he a war hero but that's why many Americans like the guy. Kinda funny to see how he turned to Palin for help with getting a chance to keep his seat. Especially after he and his election Mafia trashed her for losing the presidential election. I would say there is so much money being made by those against and for Obama right now that it's a win win no matter how the card play out.

[Rofl]

I'd say one the major factors that led to the destruction of modern American life is the liberal mindset of removing God from every instance imaginable in American life. I've always thought that since liberals have no definable morals they resent anyone who does, because it implies that those who have no moral compass will be judged by those who do. Better for liberals to remove that possibility........thus the witch hunt on anything pertaining to morals, God, Christ, etc.

Sorry, that is an utter fallacy. A "moral compass" does NOT, I repeat NOT, come from any form of religion or belief. You are confusing morals with religion. The two are NOT synonymous in any way, shape or form.

What you are saying is tantamount to saying that those who believe in religion are so immoral (or amoral) that without a "guiding book" they would revert to being savage barbarians. NOT true.

You can trace a clear path from the moment liberals got prayer removed from public schools (along with the Pledge of Allegiance) to the marked decline of this country's society on every level.

The liberals have far more whacky ideals and goals than merely reducing delusion (eg prayer and mythical beliefs) and you see them going after religion, ignore the fact they do other far more misguided things, and blame it on the fact that they removed religion.

[Rofl]

It's funny to see you two educated and enlightened folks (you are both far more enlightened and well-read than the majority in the world) arguing about WHICH president is better, WHICH party is better, when you ought to know better that it is the SYSTEM itself that is all fucked up.

[toker]

when you ought to know better that it is the SYSTEM itself that is all fucked up.

The problem in America is the same problem with the world everyone wants to take from the cookie jar but no one wants to refill it. We all know that but it will never change and it will only get worse as the world population continues to explode.

Just look at the Media today they barely report news it's all propaganda as if someone dying to a roadside bomb in Pakistan (we have international and local news for a reason) really affects me. Yet they aren't telling us about the nut job down the street that gunned down 3 people from a rival gang. Reason being bad guys vs bag guys is not considered headline material where as innocents being gun down is considered big news.

Even Wall street has become so intertwined in politics to the point there are people betting on which news station has the best ratings. And those ratings come from who is able to generate the most propaganda regardless of who they may happen to destroy in the process. So really the very same people who bitch about the system are what has caused it to break down. Just like we had this huge battle to get nutritional values listed on all our foods but it has done nothing to stop people in America from eating bowls of flavored lard.

[Wolf]

Sorry, that is an utter fallacy. A "moral compass" does NOT, I repeat NOT, come from any form of religion or belief. You are confusing morals with religion. The two are NOT synonymous in any way, shape or form.

What you are saying is tantamount to saying that those who believe in religion are so immoral (or amoral) that without a "guiding book" they would revert to being savage barbarians. NOT true.

The liberals have far more whacky ideals and goals than merely reducing delusion (eg prayer and mythical beliefs) and you see them going after religion, ignore the fact they do other far more misguided things, and blame it on the fact that they removed religion.

No, I'm saying that those who adopt a religion adopt a set of fixed morals. Those who do not adopt a particular religion are less likely to have a very defined morality. I personally am agnostic and my moral values are a lot more fluid than say, a Missionary Baptist who thinks playing cards or dancing in public is sinful. (One of their churches is less than a mile from my house, is why I use them as an example.)

Liberals, as a group, reject a fixed set of moral values. I'm just repeating what they say. Individuals, I'm sure, vary. But by and large their morality has more to do with environmentalism, controlling speech and thought and far less with how you treat your fellow man. Religious zealots also tend to want to control speech and thought.......but your average red state citizen is not, contrary to popular opinion, a religious zealot.

I'm not blaming everything on having religion removed from school but it is imo a huge factor. It is only a part of the liberal agenda but a major one.

[Wolf]

It's funny to see you two educated and enlightened folks (you are both far more enlightened and well-read than the majority in the world) arguing about WHICH president is better, WHICH party is better, when you ought to know better that it is the SYSTEM itself that is all fucked up.

That is exactly what I have been saying. I bitch about Obama because he is the figurehead in charge atm. If I spoke about who is really running things few would follow what I'm saying.

[Wolf]

Toker and I actually agree on some things. But the things we don't agree on create a wall between us politically that makes it hard for us to see that sometimes.

We're both passionate people. Bottom line is I like the guy, though, because I know he doesn't bullshit me and wouldn't stab me in the back. I'd rather have straight shooters around me who disagree on a few things than liars I can't trust of any political persuasion.

[Rofl]

Those who do not adopt a particular religion are less likely to have a very defined morality

There is proof (search or read about it) that:

A) Religion is NOT morality (I don't see it as very moral doing something because you are scared of the consequences)

B) (neg) Non-religious people are any less moral than religious people, and in fact in some cases and cultures this goes in reverse

[Rofl]

It has been noted (in social studies) that when people take responsibility for their own morals (as opposed to following a rulebook) they can tend towards becoming MORE rigid in their beliefs...